modern art

[broomhelga]

what do you think of it?

i believe that although it is good for people to use their imagination and that some products of this type of art are thought provoking and clever the rest is usually a load of rubbish only created to make self-proclaimed 'geniuses' money.

what is so bad about reproducing what is already there. it take far more talent and skill to be able to paint or draw something with a likeness of the real thing than for somebody to stick a plant pot in the middle of a room with mirrored walls (tate gallery, st. ives, south-west england)

[corky]

broomhelga, i have to disagree with you on some things. i work in an art gallery, and i've talked to many artists and researched a lot for the shows (i talk to the public as part of my job). modern art is fairly misunderstood. i agree there is some crap out there, but there's crap in every field of art, actually. modernism began as a movement to expand beyond the traditional parameters of art, just after the invention of the camera. artists were free to produce their own ideas, to challenge our thinking, because the camera was able to recreate images accurately. so artists (particularly from the 40s through today) are exploring different methods and materials...thinking outside the box, as it were. there is nothing wrong with recreating a likeness (such as in a landscape or portrait), but art isn't just about that. as artists, we have an obligation to expand the limits and try new things. you won't always like what you see, but art isn't always about beauty, either. you have to look at the message, the challenge that the artist is presenting to you. as fellow artists, we need to encourage and support that. cartoonists and digital artists are considered modernist. we should strive to accept and encourage other artists, just for presenting their ideas and views. (i personally, do not care for landscapes...never painted one, don't want to...i see tons of that at the gallery, and i'm not impressed. but that's my personal view). most people who work in the galleries where these exhibits are, are only too willing to answer questions and help everyone to understand (i don't understand everything, either). please give it a try!

[broomhelga]

broomhelga, i have to disagree with you on some things. i work in an art gallery, and i've talked to many artists and researched a lot for the shows (i talk to the public as part of my job). modern art is fairly misunderstood. i agree there is some crap out there, but there's crap in every field of art, actually.

i dont doubt that

modernism began as a movement to expand beyond the traditional parameters of art, just after the invention of the camera. artists were free to produce their own ideas, to challenge our thinking, because the camera was able to recreate images accurately. so artists (particularly from the 40s through today) are exploring different methods and materials...thinking outside the box, as it were.

i agree with all of this. but what i really hate is the amount of pretentiousness that does go on in the art world where art is declared to be genius just because of who has worked on it. it always seems like honest opnions are never given.

there is nothing wrong with recreating a likeness (such as in a landscape or portrait), but art isn't just about that. as artists, we have an obligation to expand the limits and try new things. you won't always like what you see, but art isn't always about beauty, either. you have to look at the message, the challenge that the artist is presenting to you. as fellow artists, we need to encourage and support that. cartoonists and digital artists are considered modernist. we should strive to accept and encourage other artists, just for presenting their ideas and views. (i personally, do not care for landscapes...never painted one, don't want to...i see tons of that at the gallery, and i'm not impressed. but that's my personal view).

i agree with this

most people who work in the galleries where these exhibits are, are only too willing to answer questions and help everyone to understand (i don't understand everything, either). please give it a try!

i don't have galleries near me. i just think that art is moving in the wrong direction. age old techniques are being eroded away in favour of these new ideas. i studied art in high school (UK) and at no point were we taught how to paint anything from observation. which is what i really wanted to do.

[corky]

unfortunately, art education in schools is pretty bad all over. that's why, i believe, most people don't understand or like modern art. teachers (no offense to any teachers on this board) sometimes are too busy, too overworked, and just don't realize the importance of arts education. those are usually the first programs to get cut. where i live, lots of money is pumped into sports programs, very little in arts.
when my daughter was in high school, i fought with the teachers to keep her away from using the same old photo references over and over. she does fashion design and anime, but all those teachers wanted her to do was recreate a landscape from a photograph. i was told by one teacher that they wanted to see her do "real art, not the cartoon stuff." i was furious over that. i'm standing right in front of them, and they're saying cartoons aren't "real' art.
i agree with you about the pretentiousness. but i think in every aspect of the creative endeavors you'll find that. we need to find our own voice, and be allowed to express that, without censorship (that's including from fellow artists). i get annoyed by people who tell me that i should be glad to share my gift with others, and that i should be satisfied with that.
sounds to me like you've had some unfortunate and negative experiences with arts education. it's too bad. just continue to use your own voice, regardless of what others say, and do what you're passionate about!

[broomhelga]

unfortunately, art education in schools is pretty bad all over. that's why, i believe, most people don't understand or like modern art.

it is, and my teacher was a nationally recognised artist!

teachers (no offense to any teachers on this board) sometimes are too busy, too overworked, and just don't realize the importance of arts education.

very true. most uk teachers are only aiming for high student grades rather than quality of overall teaching and learning

those are usually the first programs to get cut. where i live, lots of money is pumped into sports programs, very little in arts.

in the UK no arts subject (art,music or drama) or compulsary after 14. maths, english, a technology. science, a modern language are.

when my daughter was in high school, i fought with the teachers to keep her away from using the same old photo references over and over. she does fashion design and anime, but all those teachers wanted her to do was recreate a landscape from a photograph. i was told by one teacher that they wanted to see her do "real art, not the cartoon stuff." i was furious over that. i'm standing right in front of them, and they're saying cartoons aren't "real' art.

that is really insulting, you should have reported them.

i agree with you about the pretentiousness. but i think in every aspect of the creative endeavors you'll find that. we need to find our own voice, and be allowed to express that, without censorship (that's including from fellow artists). i get annoyed by people who tell me that i should be glad to share my gift with others, and that i should be satisfied with that.

you should be glad? but you should also be paid well for it. they are taking something from it too. not sure i understand. what gets to you?

sounds to me like you've had some unfortunate and negative experiences with arts education. it's too bad. just continue to use your own voice, regardless of what others say, and do what you're passionate about!

but if i havent been taught how to paint landscapes etc how can i?

[corky]

what gets to me is people who assume that because i have a unique gift, i should be willing to share it for free. they don't realize i work hard to learn and improve, and while it is a gift, it's also my job.
fortunately, there are other resources to learn about whatever art you wish to do. i've had to do a lot of investigation on my own...i love doing portraits, but i also love abstract. so i just sidestep the education system, and find other ways of learning. the internet is one great resource; perhaps you could find the name of an artist you admire, and find any books written by them or about them. take classes whenever and wherever you can. i live in a small city, and landscapes are very popular here, so i have had the opportunity to meet lots of landscape artists. but i wanted to learn about caricatures...so i had to go elsewhere to find that. kind of frustrating, actually. just do as much drawing as you can!

[corky]

broomhelga, thot you might be interested to hear about the latest exhibit at our gallery. it's by an artist who does sculptures in bronze. he uses a lot of welding, and i admire his use of shape and texture in the structure, but i have a huge problem with what i see as a military and very aggressive look to them. they stand about eight feet high, and they're comprised of circles at the bottom (wheels) and morph into a spire or column. some of them are more triangular, with rounded base, that looks like a missile. so, to me, they look like missiles, and a man's anatomy. so i'm very uncomfortable with the aggressive, masculine look to them. i have a hard time talking to kids about it. i'm a pacifist, and i don't want to show them something that to me, seems to glorify war and masculine aggression. the artist denies that, but i find it hard to accept his explanation. that's when modern art goes in the wrong direction. but, as an artist, i don't want to censor another artist's work. kind of a difficult situation for me. i just need to find a way out of talking about it to kids.